Chiropractors and Rolfers

A chiropractor performs manipulations.  If you believe in bacteria, microbes, and viruses as being causes of diseases (rather than spinal column irregularaties or some such), then chiropracty is not appropriate for a large class of problems.  However, it is probably an appropriate *option* for muscle strains and back trouble (or neck trouble) of a variety of type.  I treatments were occasionally slightly painful for me, but I was in pain when I started (or was in certain positions).  Obviously, if I hadn’t had any complaints, I would not have gone.  I got some help. I sort of went out of curiosity.  I had been to rolfers before, and wanted to try something different.  The “cracking” that the chirpractors do is rather unnerving, but didn’t hurt.

The Consumer Reports had a series of articles about chiropractic a few years ago.  They were not very complimentary. Rolfing (developed by the late Ida Rolf) is a bodywork procedure which attempts to realign the body.  The approach is to apply a moderately painful pressure using elbows, hands, or fingertips as appropriate.  The fascia (a sheath which covers the muscles and gives the body its shape) is stretched by this process and in general the body regains its natural shape.

The two procedures are quite different.  The Rolfing school of thought is that when there is a structural misalignment, the tissue and bone are used to a certain position.  If you move the bone without doing something with the surrounding tissue, the bone will gradually move back to where it was, since that is where the tissue is expecting it.

I got Rolfed in l975 because of pinched nerve in my neck.  I had gone to an orthopedist and he had prescribed an anti-inflammatory and physical therapy.  When I was in traction, I felt fine, but as soon as the pull released, I hurt again.  I reasoned that if Rolfing could let my neck pop up a little, I would feel OK.  That is what happened.

People who get Rolfed usually have some recall of buried psychological material.  Also, they will be emotionally much looser afterwards. The principal drawback is cost.  The normal arrangement is 10 sessions each about 1 to 1 1/2 hours, $75 a throw (LA rates).  They may be a little higher now (1984 — inflation).  I would recommend looking at the before/after pictures in Ida Rolf’s book.  You can see the improvement in how those people are standing.

There is a similar procedure to Rolfing called Heller work.  I cannot comment except to say that my understanding is that it is essentially the same concept.  There may be a slight difference in philosophy. Rolfing was the most powerful thing that I have ever done, at least in a human potential movement sense.  The psychological material just flew up at me, and I had a terrible time dealing with it.  I used to go to Rolfing on Monday, and psychotherapy on Wednesday.  My therapy was and has been much more effective since getting Rolfed.

I’ve been rambling.  One last item:  The benefits of Rolfing are likely to last for some time.  It is a situation similar to the Reichiann (sp?) body armor stuff.  Whatever the situations which caused us to armor ourselves, we are probably better able to cope with that as an adult, or the situation may no longer exist (sibling rivalry, abusive parents, what have you).

 

PERMENANT CURE OF DISEASE

As per usual, your redirect to chiro base, does not work without manipulation, then you find it is our old friend Stephen Barrett, not a real chiropractor talking about chiropractic, but one of the worlds most famous anti everything natural or non medical society approved hate mongers. It is a bit reminicent of the old meeting of the national medical convention in which one of the national presidents said that it was better to die under orthodox medical care than to get well under alternative care. Doc, all docs are indeed docs when so licensed or degreed, and deserve to be called doctors, including DCs, NDs, PhDs , DOs, ODs, DPMs, and MDs and the list goes on.

Point being that lifestyle is the single most important factor in most peoples health, Chiropractic and naturopathy recognized and were teaching that in the 1950s when the president of the California Medical Association was on bill boards above the freeways, cigarette in hand, with “a cigarette a day keeps the doctor away”  sign below his smiling face. Somewhat karmicly that MD died of lung cancer.

There is an increasing tendency for MDs and DCs to share offices and clinics. I had hospital privilages twenty years ago, and found working with the doctors to be a much better situation. It really is time patients begin to come first and bickering and prejudice take a back seat.  Unfortunately I moved and in other cities, chiropractors did not have hospital privilages at that time or even now. What would be good, is a little respect, honesty and willingness to work in a scientific manner togethar for the benefit of patients.

As you note, enemas have been used for thousands of years, with almost no negative effects, and you cannot find a single scientific article to explain why their use is suddenly out of fashion. I pointed out two to you yet you dont seem to be able to find them even knowing the year they were written, all you have to do is find the journal. Most medical schools have these journals if you are near a major city, so do some reading. It would be good for you, to try to increase your level of knowledge in this area. If you are near by, perhaps for a small fee I could guide you to the shelves where the books and journals are located in your medical school library. Enemas are not dangerous unless the nurse or doctor does not know what they are doing, and in our discussions, it is apparent that in this area your education is not really up to it, so if you don’t want to use them, that is understandable.

However, you should not be telling others who do know what they are doing, and are amply trained and knowledgable in the field what to do. Naturopaths and Chiropractors have education in this area, MDs usually do not. So I appreciate your offer for your profession to bow out of colon therapy and other areas in which you are not as well trained as chiropractors or naturopaths. However, I fear that you do not speak with the authority to bind your profession.

 

Back pain and chiropractors

As a physical therapist, and one who took McKenzie’s courses when they were taught by McKenzie, I feel qualified to dispute this claim.  Not that I’m against fostering self-care; I think this is absolutely essential if we health care professionals are to provide the best treatment.  What I dispute is that McKenzie is “an effective alternative to traditional chiropractor treatment”.  Let us dismiss consideration of the unethical chiropractors who simply crack backs and omit any self-care training. Mercifully, they are slowly losing favor among their own colleagues.  But good, complete chiropractic care will include, besides manipulation, instruction in appropriate exercise – which could be the McKenzie extension bias and instruction in modification of movement habits.  Good physical therapy should include this too – although all too often we physical therapists prefer the efficiency and revenue produced by grinding out patients on the passive modalities, e.g. hot packs, ultrasound, traction – the equivalent of the chiropractor’s manipulation (except that recent reports indicate that manipulation is more effective that other treatments in acute low back pain) and dispensing with the more time consuming functional training.

McKenzie was to spine rehabilitation what Freud was to psychology or Beethoven to music: they introduced ideas which, at the time, were considered bizarre but reformed the way we think about the subject. McKenzie took us away from the Williams Flexion era where all low back patients were taught to do full pelvic tilts and spend their time pulling their knees to their chests.  He showed that restoring the normal inward curve of the lumbar spine (extension) decreased symptoms associated with excessive flexion associated with sitting and bending.  His extension exercises remail very useful in the treatment of acute low back pain. Further, he put a strong emphasis on correction body mechanics.  However like Freud and, as some, but not I, would say, Beethoven, he went too far.  He teaches extension as a cure-nearly-all and if extension doesn’t work for you then you need to do mega-flexion.  In truth, excessive, repetitive extension can result in microtrauma and avoidable degeneration of the spine.  In my opinion, extension exercises should not be part on a spine patients ongoing, long term routine. Elimination the current pain – where McKenzie shows 80% success – is not the major battle.  Avoiding joining the 60% who have another episode of severe pain within 2 years – the usual rate with back pain in general, is the sign of success.  I feel that only with implementation of a neutral spine position stabilization program – with a strong emphasis on learning to maintain neutral spine position in daily activities is one likely to have success in the long term.

 

Anyone Heard of Atlas Orthoganal?

Chiropractors will “treat” anything for which they can get paid.  True story: my mother was seeing a chiropractor for a back problem.  One day she called to to cancel her appointment.  The receptionist asked why so she lied & said she had diarrhea.  The receptionist said hold on a minute.  After a few minutes she got back on the phone & said “The doctor says the manipulation will take care of that too.”  I still laugh about that.  I guess when they find that bone & shove it the right way we won’t need Kaopectate anymore.  My mother eventually had back surgery, saw a physical therapist for a while afterwards and her back has been great ever since (about 5 years now).  I read a front page article in the Wall Street Journal about three or four years ago that was about how aggressive chiropractors were getting in “practice development” – what we  call “drumming up business” in the business world.  The WSJ reported that many – not all but many – chiropractors were telling people they should have a chiropractor as their primary care physician. AND that their children don’t need immunizations, kids just need spinal manipulations.  I had an aunt, about 70 years old that went to a chiropractor against her MD’s advice.  The chiropractor broke three of her ribs during the treatment.  Now I’m not trying to knock chiropractors.  I think some of them probably recognize the limitations of what they can do.  And they probably can give a very nice relaxing massage.  BUT THEY ARE NOT medical doctors!  Anyone with a medical condition should go to a physician, orthopedist, or physical therapist if they really want to get well.

Hans Better Stick With Dentistry

“Pediatric chiropractic care is often inconsistent with recommended medical guidelines,” writes a team of researchers led by Dr. Kathi J. Kemper of the Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts. The researchers base their conclusions on surveys from 90 doctors of chiropractic (DCs) in the Boston area. Chiropractic usually involves manipulating the spine and other joints to relieve pain and promote general health. But Kemper and colleagues report that for kids, treatment may be directed at specific illness. “Although most adults (85%) consult DCs for musculoskeletal conditions, children frequently visit DCs for respiratory problems, ear, nose and throat problems, and general preventive care,” report Kemper and her team.

The results of the survey indicated that 11% of chiropractic visits were for children and adolescents, and 79% of chiropractors said they modified their techniques for these young patients. But the authors also note that only 30% of chiropractors said they actively recommended that children receive standard immunizations, while 7% recommended against them.

Even more alarming is the fact that when asked what they would do if presented with a 2-week-old infant with a fever over 101 degrees Fahrenheit (38.4 C), 17% of the chiropractors surveyed said they would perform a spinal adjustment. Only about two-thirds said they would refer the baby to a medical doctor immediately. “These issues raise great concern as more and more children and families seek chiropractic care, particularly if the care is not coordinated with a pediatrician,” conclude the researchers in the April issue of the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine. Potential concerns include complications due to spinal manipulation, delay of appropriate medical treatment when needed, and failure to promote childhood immunizations. Kemper and colleagues call for more research to “address the safety and effectiveness of chiropractic care” for children.

 

Amalgam Research in Dental School

I can promise you that you are having the better position, and will have more fun. It is becoming increasingly harder to be an amalgam advocate these days. Before you do anything else you should look up what your opponents will say or might come up with. Their main argument is that the dental health situation will get worse without amalgam since it is strong and durable (which it is, no doubt).

The classic argument against that is that composites are just as strong and that it is all a matter of technique. That gives non-amalgam dentistry an impression of having some sort of supreme quality stamp, which in turn makes people (and the Public) think that the non-amalgam dentists are somewhat better than the traditional amalgam using dentists. That’s an argument that always will make them upset.

When it comes to hard data, *scientific facts*, the best way to put it is that the jury is still out. Even if it has been on its way in for the past 15 years it is still not seated.

There are a lot of studies proving the safety of amalgam intra-orally, but there are also studies that really put a question-mark on this. It seems as the human organism is dealing with mercury as it does with all heavy metals, especially lead. And there is for sure an individual upper limit for every-one how much they can take. Inner city dwellers, which have a higher concentration of lead in their system, might be more susceptible to the accumulation of other metals.

Facts are, however, that all responsible authorities in the world are trying to decease the use of mercury, and that the use has gone down incredibly during the last decades. Still, the concentration of mercury in see food and air is increasing. That’s why it is paramount to reduce all possible sources of mercury, of which dental amalgam is one. This will be your strongest argument. I do not know how deep you are planning on penetrating this issue, but if you want scientific references on amalgam safety as well as potential health hazards, just let me know.

There are “Medically-related” doctors: Optometrists, Chiropractors, etc. These doctors cannot prescribe medications but still treat medical disorders according to their training and research.

 

 

What do you go to chiropractors for?

A number of people have provided testimonials for the efficacy of their chiropractors, and I’d like to ask them what conditions they have which are being treated successfully by chiropractic, and what treatments are employed.

I feel most comfortable with a traditional medical approach, because it’s grounded in the scientific method.  That is, the underlying philosophy seems sound to me, although any individual practitioner will undoubtedly fall short in one way or another–hopefully in some unimportant way!   Although I try to keep my steel-trap mind open, I really *am* suspicious of practitioners of a treatment philosophy invented by a farmer from Iowa which indicates that vertebral “subluxation” is the cause of all ill health. And, for those chiropractors who disavow such an approach, it’s unclear to me what they replace it with.

I’m not trying to get into another yin/yang argument between traditional and non-traditional healing professions.  Rather, I would really like to hear from people who have had success from chiropractic.  Please tell us what your problems were, how they were helped, and what the chiropractor did.

 Most chiropractors are honest, well trained healers, practicing a method that is proven to provide relief, and is *SOME* cases has produced what at least appear to be “cures”.  Unfortunately, there are quacks in every sector of the health care field.  The AMA just *LOVES* to publicize the occasional quack chiropractor too bad they don’t put as much energy into publicizing their own quacks when discovered.

   Modern chiropractic is not for everyone.  If you have a backache, or a neck ache, or leg pains, and your MD can’t do anything but provide you with mind-dulling drugs that provide only minimal and temporary relief, then you should consider seeing a chiropractor.  They *MAY* be able to help.

   Don’t fall victim to the money-grubbing power politics of the AMA. Check the facts for yourself.  Remember that the AMA is the organization that owns millions of $$$ in tobacco stock, and refused to support the Surgeon General’s warnings on cigarette packages.  According to studies I have seen, the official AMA postions seldom represent the opinions of the member MDs.  Often, according to these studies, they represent as few as 5-10% of the membership.

   Doctors are human beings, not gods.  Western medical “science” has no valid claim to being the only correct or effective means of achieving health care.  When I need an MD, I see one.  When I need a chripractor, I see one.

 

 

ADD

Neurological disorganization is simple defined as uncoordinated nerve signaling cause by nerve receptors sending conflicting information for  interpretation to the brain.  This can effect a child coordination or”learning ability. It may occasionally effect both, but usually one  predominates. Neurological disorganization is corrected by Neurolymphatic and cranio-sacral therapies, usually performed by chiropractors and ocassionally by osteopaths and MD’s. In many cases of ADD this is all thats required to acheive correction.

I used cranial manipulation on my son Tony.  Ron has indicated to me that his technique does not really work for defects in brain chemistry (but correcting some nutritional imbalances in the body can help).  When a specific genetic defect results in less receptor 5 for the dopaminergic system being present (active), what good is cranial manipulation going to do?  For my son, dexadrine was the only drug that worked (Ritalin did not) but by the time we found it, he was already into street drug use.  His drug of choice was crank (methamphetamine) but he used everything he could get his hands on.  Cocaine was not that great (but better than a non-drug existence).  After learning about the dopaminergic system I had tried tyrosine on him with no success.  He loved doing crank with LSD, he said that was the only time in his whole life that he ever felt really good (until he increased the dose and started getting some bad trips). Now that he is a drug rehab problem, he has said that without drugs he can’t get any pleasure from life.  He knows that he can’t use and survive but what kind of life can he have if there is no enjoyment in it.

I get pleasure from learning, he doesn’t.  I get pleasure from watching the sun come up, he doesn’t.  He either has to find an occupation or a hobby that will give him the stimulation that he needs.  He can’t use illegal (or legal drugs).  The dexadrine isn’t an option anymore (as far as his physician is concerned because of his inability to regulate dose).  I don’t know if the outcome would have been different with an earlier diagnosis. He choose his friends based on their common problems with school (hardly any of them ever graduated from high school).  My daughter who enjoyed school and did well choose other kinds of friends (where drug use was not common).  Drug use was very common with the friends my son choose.  It is absolutely imperative that an early diagnosis be made and that the school performance improve (meaning that it has to become enjoyable).  We loose far too many good people by not recognizing a problem early (school systems are horrible when it comes to trying to help).

 

Was Dr. McCoy’s nickname a tribute to Chiropractic?

There were good articles on chiropractic in “The Skeptical Inquirer” and “Consumer Reports” several years back.  Frankly, I think it is frightening that many people have chiropractors as their primary care-givers.  Many chiropractors are people who never would have made it into medical school, let alone make it through medical training.  The notion that spinal adjustments are needed to improve or maintain health is unproven and highly doubtful.  In the first place, “cracking” the back does not realign vertebrae.  The stretching effect certainly can relieve back pain, but chiropractors should be open and admit they are not “adjusting” the spine.

I’ve been to quite a few chiropractors, and I’ve never known one to prescribe drugs.  Malingerers and those looking largely for emotional/social contact are a problem for everyone who renders personal service, from massage therapists to MD to priests, but that’s hardly the fault of chiropractors.  How the individual chiropractor deals with it would be the ethical question here.  The guy I see most of the time has been known to tell many of these folks that he simply can’t help them, and they’ll have to go elsewhere.

Data point:  Have a massage client for whom I did a postural evaluation when he was having severe, chronic back pain.  He had the scariest posture I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen a lot.  His pelvis was badly torqued, and *way* off to the side — even an untrained eye could easily see that his hips were a good 3″ to one side.  Bad lumbar lordosis (that’s a swayback to the uninitiated), too.  One shoulder way in front of the other.  Saw him two weeks later, and he was remarkable straighter, and his pain far, far less.  He’d been to a good chiropractor.

 

A Question about Chiropractors

I’ve noticed how many of you go to chiropractors. I’ve got one question. How the _ell do you tolerate anyone pushing on your body?? I’d be afraid to even walk in a chiropractor’s door. I have a lot of spots on my body that *I* try to avoid putting any pressure on. I don’t think there’s ANY place on my body that I can tolerate any prolonged pressure on. I always have to move one of my cats off me. Especially if they’re standing on me.

I’m always trying to grin and bear it, but having to limit the “loving” my kitties want to give me kinda upsets me. How do you guys tolerate the chiropractor? I’m so tired of this non-stop pain. (And I have some Darvon but I try to use it as little as possible. I’m afraid that, if I use it too often, the doc might decide to refuse to give me any more, at all.)

There are many types of chiropractic and a good chiro will not do things to cause you pain and will explain everything. I, myself, would never go to a “bone-cracker” type chiro. I will give you a link to the method that my chiro uses (very gentle) and know that there are links to Upledger and Bowen which are only two others of many types.

Click Positional Release Therapy section. This works for me sometimes long-lasting and sometimes I need several treatments, depending on the problem. I do feel better after every treatment (when I could afford them). If you look around your area and interview the chiro, you may find someone who suits you(probably in Nashville). It is like the difference between Swedish massage and a lighter massage.